PUB DEF EXCLUSIVE
At a panel discussion on race and politics yesterday, Democratic State Rep. Maria Chappelle-Nadal and Republican State Rep. candidate Shamed Dogan sparred over Dogan’s assertion that intermarriage is one of the best ways to reach a “color-blind” society.
November 5th, 2007 at 5:58 PM
I am a yellow dog Democrat, but the Republican had a better take on the situation than the representative of what is supposed to be the liberal or progressive party. She didn’t even address his point of making the world color-blind through intermarriage, but instead defined her own debate of poverty.
The look on Jeff’s face was priceless. You could see the moment when it sunk in that yes, he DID just say THAT. And, Jake’s eyes were like saucers during the response.
What happened to our liberal party that is so afraid to address issues like race and poverty? THIS is why the Republicans beat us on message every time.
November 5th, 2007 at 6:40 PM
She sounds foolish…
Jessie, Al and Louis would love her. She does not want to solve the problem because she would have nothing else to bark about.
At least Dogan takes a look at the future.
November 5th, 2007 at 7:20 PM
I’ve heard the same points made before from other intelligent blacks, marriages and good dads make a huge difference in any family. If she had a point, I missed it. And yes, Interracial anything and everything should help to achieve a color blind society. Talking about these things openly seems the simplest first step. Right On, Mr. Republican. Did I just type that?
November 5th, 2007 at 7:55 PM
I’m annoyed by her. I bet a million dollars she grew up no where near an urban black environment/culture. When do we black people stop for a second, pick ourselves up by our boot straps and stop blaming slavery for our situation today? Our culture does not have to be one of welfare, gangs, and baby-mommas. Brothers and sisters, we have opportunity…. we are given preference in college acceptance, in aid programs, housing, grants, and even in winning business contracts…JUST BECAUSE WE ARE BLACK! We no longer have an excuse. Self accountability will be our only way to achieve our full potential. Stop making excuses.
November 5th, 2007 at 8:08 PM
It’s good to see Shamed’s small crew respond and attempt to inflat his ignorance. Too bad he will fail in his primary. It must be lonely being so isolated and shunned among his black peers.
November 5th, 2007 at 8:10 PM
yellow dog democrats are racists too. Stop covering your identity. Don’t disquise that red neck any longer. Come out, come out where ever you are (little racist)!
November 5th, 2007 at 9:50 PM
Veronica O’Brien’s husband is white and black people attack her because of it.
November 5th, 2007 at 10:12 PM
Am I missing something here?
The guy proposed INTERMARRIAGE as the solution to all of our racial problems. That is the most facile explanation I have ever heard!
Hey Shamed, why not try to encourage tolerance and promote equality rather than such silly ideas? My guess is most of your Republican buddies aren’t going to be too keen on your idea.
November 6th, 2007 at 6:19 AM
Clarence Thomas… Ward Connerly… J.C. Watts… Sen. Larry Craig… >Shamed Dogan
November 6th, 2007 at 8:18 AM
Vintage Maria although she was a little more articulate than normal. She should have lived by the old proverb, “better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and prove it.”
I would suggest you watch the video again. Dogan does not propose interracial marriage as THE solution. Dogan is very articulate and will give racists like Maria a run for their money.
November 6th, 2007 at 10:10 AM
I’m sorry the answer to issues of equality is NOT inter-racial marraige (become more white). That sounds like self-hating attitude. I dont see a problem with inter marraige, but it is the ANSWER to poverty, education, drugs, more Black men in Jail than in College….. the list goes on.
Dogans point about where’s daddy, is a mute point. Daddy is gone, maybe in jail, maybe dead maybe they got divorced like mose white families. The fact of Maria’s point was that the reality is what we need to address in the immediate term. Its nice to point out that a two parent family would be better – no crap sherlock. Is that something you can enforce?
The slavery issue I think IS an issue. After hundreds years of slave owners ACTIVELY destroying black families, that sense of family is diminished. Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Maybe a Democrat though.
The culture these people had was taken away. You cant make up for that by saying “stay married”, and let me cut these “giveaway programs” as most republicans call them.
The number one reason for divorce regardless of race is MONEY, MONEY MONEY. Here you are talking about the most impoversihed group in our society. You have to address the CAUSE and not the symptom.
Thank you Maria for being brave enough to say it, disbelief I think prevented a more prepared comeback
November 6th, 2007 at 4:56 PM
Maria never has a prepared comeback. She is incapable of any intelligent and sustained conversation that involves knowledge rather than ire.
Dogan’s point about Daddy was right on point. Fix that and you fix a lot of things. Maria’s ignorant statement was that dad’s in our community have always been missing. That’s flat out false. It became a bigger problem when we let the man take care of us with government programs. Maria just wants more taking care of from the government.
November 6th, 2007 at 5:56 PM
Maria makes good points. I think she is simply passionate. The black family has been underdeveloped and undermined both here and in South Africa. This is not an alien concept. Moreover, she mentioned child care. TANF does not provide child care but it requires single mothers to work. That is an undue burden which negatively affects single impoverished mothers
Daddy is in jail because of three strikes laws which destroy the black family, that’s where he is. He is in jail because of the powder cocaine – crack disparity. We want the African American family to be strong, yet African American males are in prison mostly for living in the white governmentally created ghetto while having few choices.
November 6th, 2007 at 9:36 PM
“Anonymous said…
Veronica O’Brien’s husband is white and black people attack her because of it. 11/05/2007 9:50 PM”
Her husband has nothing to do with how people treat her. It has to do with how she treats others–horribly. Most reproach her for her mean spiritedness, rudeness, crassness, and self-important attitude.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:39 AM
People attack Veronica O’Brien because she is ugly and acts ignorant!
November 7th, 2007 at 12:27 PM
Whenever I hear politicians bring up slavery, I cringe. However I am much more put off by those who gloss over its consequences.
In America we come from many different cultures and ideologies. The challenges presented by such diversity cannot be addressed Polyanna-style as Shamed suggests.
By eliminating “artificial racial distinctions” thru intermarriage, Shamed contends our race problems could be solved. It sounds like a modern-twist on ethnic cleansing to me.
Maria however encourages us to address the underlying problems of prejudice and preference head on so that appearances would no longer have the power to divide and conquer us.
Currently we’re living in a world full of them (appearances), not grappling with how they came to be, what purposes they serve or how we can effectively set a new cause in motion.
I think it would be revolutionary to hold a Truth and Reconciliation Conference as they did in South Africa.
Then we could truly work towards having a sense of cohesion and unity here, and we could leave all of the finger-pointing, hurt and anger behind.
November 8th, 2007 at 9:25 AM
Well, I’m in an interracial relationship- a white man with a black woman. I can tell you that both whites and blacks have problems with it. If you could see some of the looks that we get from black men and women as well as whites you might understand. My father is a racist. He was also an administrator in the public schools in the St. Louis area for many years. What kind of opportunities do think that he gave blacks? I don’t speak to my father. He’s part of a generation that put us where we are now- best left behind.
Interracial marriage is an individual solution for two people who love each other and want to spend their lives together and may want to start a family. The solution to racism is to eliminate hatred, ignorance and disparity between people of different skin colors. Hatred of others because of their perceived differences based solely on appearance (skin color, hair texture, etc.) (i.e.- my white Corvette is much faster than your black Corvette…), ignorance of not only history but the culture and the machinations of life in the US (economic issues, opportunity, etc.) and of course the disparity in economic power and opportunity between the races.
Long story short- whites kill blacks, blacks kill blacks and the younger generations lacking in historical perspective and therefore the knowledge and wisdom of experience of how we all got here to be begin with are left to pick up the pieces.
To the black man doubting Maria’s “blackness”- that seems to be a problem with blacks. Why do you doubt her “blackness”? She did in fact grow up in a mixed neighborhood in a predominantly black city (University City). That would be the district that she represents. How are you helping your community by being hateful to your own people? Oh, and how does this address racism by doubting a person’s “blackness”? Personally I try to judge people by their actions regardless of their appearance or circumstances and I’ll let the Good Lord make his final judgments in good time.
The kid is obviously naive and he meant well but if you watch the body language of the other people at the table as he speaks they all look so uncomfortable! Is that because they agreed with him?
Though I admit that Maria’s response might have not been the most astute “soundbite”-ready response that you might expect from the political media machine that you’re used to watching (most national and even higher-up locals have people writing their speeches and responses and carefully measure their words so as not to seem inarticulate or upset their constituency)- the rebuttal to his statement would have taken hours to fully explore. I also wonder if you watched the rest of the forum to be able to put that moment in context…
November 9th, 2007 at 9:58 AM
John K says a lot that makes sense. However, his examples of killings were not balanced, i.e., “whites kill blacks and blacks kill blacks…” Whites kill white and blacks kill whites too. Currently, more blacks kill whites than whites kill blacks; but historically (that is the past) more whites killed blacks. It is the reverse today.
In essence, this particular problem–the killings–is a spiritual problem addressed by Christianity, Islam, and Judaism among others.
From a Christian and Judaism perspective, killing, violence is sin against God and man. Human life is of equal value regardless of skin color.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:39 AM
I’m Canadian, and the child of interracial marriage. I’m also unapologetically conservative, like my father before me. Shamed makes some real sense, in that their has been a necessary reconcilling in my own family on both sides with regards to race directly because of my parents and my siblings. Ironically both sides of my family are from the same island in the West Indies but both sides distrusted the “other”. Intermarriage is a solution of sorts, at least as something to be celebrated and encouraged. Not everyone will follow suit, but it creates a middle of the road path that rejects either sides extremism, that anyone can walk down comfortably.
While slavery is a large component of the modern black experience in the Americas Dogan has a very good point by suggesting we cannot be trapped by it. There were millions more transported by the slave trade to the middle east than the Americas, and their treatment was far worse, men were castrated, and women had their newborn babies killed, because Arabs feared blacks as much as the Europeans did. No one complains about the black experience at the hands of Arabs. That may be because, contrary to the African slave experience in the Americas, the majority of African slaves in the mid east were not allowed to procreate or have families of their own. I bring this up not to point fingers, but to suggest that the situation over here in the West can easily be overcome if we stop dwelling on one point. The best way to show respect for the lives of the people who lost theirs in the struggle for freedom is to use ours wisely. To build, and to expand positively. Embracing the optimism of people like Shamed Dogan, and running with it.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:52 PM
Wow … . And I thought the Democratic Presidential Prirmay debates were painful. My heart goes out to the people of the 72nd House District of Missouri.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:30 PM
I’m truly embarrassed that this woman is my state representative.